The Triangle

Issue date: 4/8/05 Section: Entertainment

Dignity and Shame is the new album out from Dave Bachmann.

Eric Bachmann was a saxophone major at Appalachian State University. In 1991 he co-founded the Archers of Loaf. That band went on to put out seminal Indie favorites such as "Icky Mettle" and "Vee Vee." Before forming his latest group, Bachmann did solo work writing a motion picture soundtrack and recording with his mostly instrumental band Barry Black. Bachmann now leads Crooked Fingers who have released four albums including the critically acclaimed Red Devil Dawn and recently released Dignity and Shame on Merge Records. The band performed at the World Café Live March 25.

T: Thanks for talking with me.

Bachmann: It's my pleasure, thanks for doing it.

T: You guys are on tour now, is that right?

Eric Bachmann: Today's our first day; we're in Denver. There's a six-piece band, so we're real excited about it. We've drove from Seattle the last three days.

T: Are you excited to get the new material out to the audiences?

Bachmann: Absolutely yes, it's the biggest band we've taken out. It's like a bunch of pirates. There's eight of us and we're gallivanting around.

T: Will the set mostly focus on the new material?

Bachmann: It will be mostly new, but we've got so many old songs we want to play. We'll play 50/50 new and old.

T: This new album Dignity and Shame is a piece on bullfighter Manolete and his lover Lope Sino, correct?

Bachmann: It is one of the song stories; some of the have nothing to do with that. There's other things going on. I just thought that story was interesting in that if a bullfighter kills a bull it's very dignified, but if not it's shameful and the crowd boos him. It made sense with the concept of Dignity and Shame, which is why a put it on the album.

T: Yes, it seems to work really well in a musical context. About the artwork, was that a piece you had already seen, or did a friend do that rendering?

Bachmann: Brian Causey does our artwork. That is actually a picture of the bullfighter Chamaco who was a famous bullfighter in the 60s and 70s and made a comeback in the 90s. I don't think he fared that well, but it's kind of a mystery.

T: It's very catching to the eye. So with this record you're taking in more Spanish influences. Have you changed the music you've been listening to lately?

Bachmann: I always try to listen to as many things as possible. I wouldn't say the sound of it is a direct correlation of me listening to a bunch of Spanish flamenco music or Andalusian music. Obviously, "Call to Love," "You Must Build a Fire" and "Destroyer" have nothing to do with Spanish anything. It was really just that idea of the Manolete story that brought those songs into it.

I would argue that the characters in every song are dealing with that issue of dignity and shame. That was just one element of it, but when you deal with that kind of matador thing a lot of cool imagery comes from it. I think that's why we put the artwork on there like that. It's not anything I was specifically listening to that influenced the sound of it. If we had gone that far with it, it would have shortchanged the whole concept of the record. When you have a lyrical idea that kind of ties everything together you have more freedom to change things musically.

T: In your work with Barry Black, you played saxophone, clarinet and other instruments. Do you ever intend to incorporate those musical ideas into future Crooked Fingers records?

Bachamnn: I'd love to do that, but as far as singing and playing the saxophone at the same time...I'm sure that we will eventually. We were rehearsing for this tour and were trying to figure out a way to work it in so I could play saxophone somewhere, but it just didn't make sense. I'm always interested in doing different kinds of things. I try to just let [the music] take me where it does. I don't like trying to contrive things. I don't really plan it; I just try to be open to ideas that hit me and go where they take me. That way you don't fall into formulas. Formulas are the enemy of creativity...I try not to be in control. I try to not resist ideas when they hit me. If you plan it way in advance, you sort of limit what the record can do. It's just not as fun... it turns it into a chore when you narrow it down like that. I like to keep it broad and write whatever comes out.

T: You did work composing the score for the "Ball of Wax" film. Did that help you in trying to visualize the story and compose around an idea?

Bachmann: No, actually I think it's the other way around. People always ask that silly question, "What do you write first, the words or the music?" It's neither; you try doing it at the same time. I still like the idea of having it suggestive and abstract. But I've always wanted to write in a way that was visual. So I think the fact that the score and this have that similarity is just a symptom of what I'm into anyway.

T: Do you plan to do any more scores in the future?

Bachmann: I'd love to do it, but it's hard to get that kind of work. After the work from that "Ball of Wax" film, I got hired to do a bigger Hollywood movie. I wrote three pieces for it, and they fired me. They wanted something a little more like, I'm not even joking, Anita Baker. So I'm like, "Why in the hell did you hire me?" But they were polite enough and it turned out good that I wasn't associated with it because apparently the film didn't turn out very well.

T: So what do you on your days off from the tour?

Bachmann: Well usually we'll go see a movie or go bowling. But sometimes we have to just drive to the next city. Our band reads a lot and watches a lot of movies. We like to bowl, typical band stuff. Do some wholesome stuff like reading... and do a little dirty stuff too.

T: Is it correct that the band wrote two albums worth of material for this album?

Bachmann: Well, we wrote twenty-one songs and recorded twenty-two... we did a remake of "New Drink for the Old Drunk."

T: That's on the vinyl version only?

Bachmann: Yep, exactly.

T: Are the sessions usually this prolific or is it a difference now with the number of people in the band?

Bachmann: I don't know what happened... [the songs] just sort of fell out. People always ask what are you going to do with the songs that you left off... a lot of them are already being used. "Carousel" is on the iTunes thing with "Call to Love." The song called "Ship to Spain" is on the Bloodshot fifteen-year anniversary CD. There are two on the vinyl with "New Drink" and "El Cuchilo." A few of them we left off aren't good so I want to rewrite them and get them better. There was a couple that were really good, but we just left them off and they'll probably end up on the next record. There's a song called "Let's Not Pretend to be New Men" that we play live now.

T: So most of the material eventually finds its way out?

Bachmann: Oh, absolutely. Or it will be rewritten to be better than it was. We had a song called "Quarantine" that I thought was kind of weak and we had a song called "Cannibal" that was kind of weak. I have to rewrite these things; they're not finished. They haven't presented themselves to me in a way that I'm satisfied with. It's a real slow process. Some songs take an hour to write and some songs take three years.

T: So this time around you are still on Merge Records. Since the last time you've been out, this band The Arcade Fire has gotten pretty big. Do you feel like that's an isolated incident or has Merge been doing better promotional work?

Bachmann, seen above, is either standing close to the camera with a big city in the background, or is Godzilla-sized.

Bachmann: I think it's both. I think Merge does a great job. They've done a great job for us. I think it's an isolated incident. The thing about The Arcade Fire is that they have that naïve energy; they're a great band. Naïve is probably the wrong word... they just have excitement about what they are doing. When they play live, they have this great energy they give off. I've only seen it in young bands. When you get older, you tend to lose that. For that reason, because they have that gift of wonderful, young energy, it makes it a unique thing. You can do all the freakin' marketing in the world, but if a band has that they're going to do well. I also think that Merge hasn't jumped the ball either, so you have to give them kudos as well. I've been doing this for about thirteen or fourteen years... it's never going to be for us an exciting, new band thing because I've been around for a while. But also, we're not doing that kind of music. It's different for us, but they're so great and just deserve it so much. They came to one of our shows. I was doing solo shows with the Delgados. It was me and Lara, and three members [of the Arcade Fire] came out to our show in Philly. They're just such nice people. They have lots of humility and are really honored to be playing music. It's great to see when a band is succeeding and they're really incredible people too.

T: Does that youthful energy make you recall your days in The Archers of Loaf? Do you miss that?

Bachmann: Well I can't really miss it, because you can only have it once. That's why I'm saying it's such a special thing. That's one of the reasons I really like that band... it reminds me of Archers of Loaf in 1993. When we first came out we had that energy. It's a weird thing that you can't put your finger on. But then again, I wouldn't want to or be able to make a record like that. I listened to "Icky Mettle," and I almost cringe when I hear it. But what the people probably liked when they heard that record was the energy we were putting out.

T: You're still putting out up-tempo numbers like "Valerie." You're basically getting that energy out in a different way?

Bachmann: Yes, and things that I listen to like Townes Van Zant and Roberta Flack never had that energy. But I listen to those records more than The Arcade Fire. It's personal taste obviously when you're inspired by things that aren't doing that. Since things that aren't giving off all that energy inspire me, I'm not going to attempt to do it myself. It's more about the songwriting. The Arcade Fire is an anomaly because they have great songwriting and a lot of stuff to offer. It's nice to see that in such a jaded world. It's nice to see people have that capacity to be so friggin' cool and be able to pull that off.

T: A line from "Sleep All Summer" off the new record goes "Give the ocean what I took from you / So one day you could find it in the sand / And hold it in your hands." What message were you conveying with that imagery?

Bachmann: I don't know if there's one specific thing. I like to keep things suggestive so people can get what they want out of it. It seems a line like that... I'm speculating because I have no idea where the hell they come from... conveys the idea that whatever you give out to the universe comes back to you, whether it be in how you treat people in general or how you treat your lovers. That whole idea is a huge thing when I considered the concept of "Dignity and Shame." I don't want to get too heavy-handed about it because it's just a record, but you think about people like Victor Franklin who are Holocaust survivors and chose to be very positive and live with dignity after losing his family. The positive attitudes that people have after they go through something like that are just so inspirational. It's very reasonable to go through something like that and say, "Fuck it. I'm going to be bitter and angry." It's really noble when people have the capacity to lose everything and still have dignity about their lives. The line in that song is about a relationship and it going terribly wrong, but still having the ability to try again.

T: They're deciding dignity or shame, hence the title.

Bachmann: In a sense yes, not to be hokey. Actually, yes. To be hokey! I wanted it to have that heart-on-your-sleeve sentimentality.

T: I think it's part of the record's charm.

Bachmann: Well that's what I was hoping for. But when you do that, especially a guy like me, you risk losing fans of the darker stuff. If I made three fairly dark records, and all of a sudden you sing songs about that they're going to be like "What the fuck are you singing about, man? I hate this shit!" Whenever I read a review about someone who's annoyed at how sappy or dippy a lyric is I'm like "Yea... that's good." It backs me out of a corner. I don't want to be remembered for one specific thing. I'd rather be remembered for a bunch of different things. But it is what it is.

T: Well, what it is... is very awesome.

Bachmann: Thanks man, that means more than you know. Especially because this is the first record that I've put out in awhile that's gotten a few bad reviews. I can't complain because most of them have been good. But if you've been doing it for a while and you usually get good reviews and start getting bad ones you're like "Oh, wow." I don't know... it's just a weird sense of satisfaction when you get [good reviews]. Maybe it's just me, but it means more when people like it. It means more when somebody gets what you are trying to do. It makes it more meaningful to me. It makes it more like a team effort.

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